SB Nation - Login for mobile commenting

Podium Cafe

Cccccccchronomen and FSA DS

FSA DS

FIRST THINGS FIRST Among several new races that we added to our little competition, one needs a little explaining and that's the Worlds TTT. First, its the normal trade teams here and not nations. Here's how we plan to score that sucker:

1) Scored like any Cat 2 Monument race except,

2) only the top five teams score and,

3) every rider of the top five teams that finishes with his team is given one-fifth of the team's points even if there are more than five riders who cross the line together.

Example: Let's say Garmin wins the race and they finish with six riders. All six get 350 divided by 5 points or 70 points each. Then say Sky comes in second with only five riders together. Those five divide up the second place points of 300 points or 60 points per rider. Sky's sixth rider (the teams get six riders in this competition, gets zero points. Diddly. Zilch. Squat.

Make sense? Leave questions below in the comments.

Now onto our FSA DS topic of the day, an often under appreciated group of riders, but they all have mothers like you and me....let's hear it for the the time trial specialists! Whoo-hoo! We've never talked about THESE guys (/John Gruden) but between having an extra Cat 2 ITT race (the Olympics) and the Worlds cat 2 TTT we got ourselves a bunch of riders who could pull in more points then they normally would.

And its not just your stereotypical Chronoman like Bert Grabsch either (a rider who only picks up points in time trials) but also potentially riders like Evans or Levi who would certainly be an asset for their team in the TTT and thus a little more likely that they will stick around for the hilly ITT too. As you'll see below the jump the Worlds TT courses do nice things for those climby guys who are good against the clock. Okay, let's break this whole thing down and see what we got.

Star-divide

2012_worlds_tt_course_copy_medium

On the right is the profile of the World's ITT course. See? Climby TT guys will like this.

Group A: the TT specialists These guys make their FSA DS points on the TT courses. Maybe some points in the De Panne race TT; perhaps winning a prologue somewhere. The rest of the time they are driving their teams along the flats before the end of the race or stage. Only occasionally do they get point anywhere else. Let's meet a few...

1. Bert Grabsch 2011 points: 459. 37 years old this year but doesn't seem to be slowing down as Levi gave him a lot of love after San Luis. My main concern for him is can he handle the hillier than normal Worlds courses? He tends to excel on the flat power courses.

Mens_ttt_medium

To the right is the Worlds TTT course.

2. Richie Porte 2011 points: 325. I don't like including him here with the specialists but I'm not sure how much he gets to ride for himself at Sky. At any rate he could pick up major points at the Worlds for both Sky and himself and return more points this year than last.

3. Gustav Erik Larsson 2011 points: 250. On Vaconsoleil now with the next guy. Didn't have a great end to his Saxo career but should get his chances here. Bounce year?

4. Lieuwe Westra 2011 points: 375. Between Larsson, Westra, Devo, Leukemans, etc. the Vacans might have a very strong team, chrono-wise.

5. David Millar 2011 points: 563. Guy gets a decent share of his points on non-TT courses. Will he be eligible for the Olympics course? Why can't the bureaucrats decide such things before the FSA DS deadline?

6. Jack Bobridge 2011 points: 225. Jacky Bobby, fifth last year at Worlds.

7. Svein Tuft 2011 points: 310. He's erratic by other than West Coast standards but he's back on a PT team again. One thing I look for when making my team is have circumstances changed for the rider making it easier this year to earn points? For Tuft, the answer is yes.

8. Alex Dowsett 2011 points: 365. Of course he promises to be more than a chronoman bu right now he's money at the lesser TT races. Kid made none of those points at Worlds. Will he get a chance this year?

Non-TT Specialists

1. Fabian Cancellara 2011 points: 2091. After the spring, Fabian has dedicated his season to the tests against the clock. And he won't have to tow the Schlecks in the TTT.

2. Tony Martin 2011 points: 1104. And Tony will be waiting for him. At the Olympics and both Worlds TT courses.

3. Cadel Evans 2011 points: 1823. Not at the Olympics but the hilly Worlds courses seem made for him to capture the rainbow jersey-either RR or TT. Speaking of which do the TTT winners get anything that they can wear?

4. Bradley Wiggins 2011 points: 1486. The one thing I wonder about this boy is him being a) England's Great White Tour hope plus b) England's Great White Olympic TT hope, plus, c) England's Great White Worlds hope. In any he's a serious threat. All three or four or five? can't see it.

Alright, I can here you from my couch. I left off Lovfqkvfist and Durbridge and Talansky, and Albert Finney and... its up to you to find some of the other hidden gems. But here's a challenge: in the comments put up some hypothetical TTT teams; let's see what the different teams have.

0 recs  |  185 comments

Comments

So wait..

the WORLD’s TTT event is for Trade Teams? I’m sure we’ve dicussed that, but I wasn’t paying attention. That’s really cool…now, that I’ve thought about it for more than a second. Gonna be forever confusing years from now when we see guys (now on different teams) in a TTT event…some with Rainbow cuffs riding with some without.

I'm curious to see how they handle the rainbow jerseys, too

There’s lots of possibilities.

And having it be with trade teams makes total sense

The reason the TTT sorta fizzled at the worlds level before was because it was riders who might barely know each other having to excel in the event where teamwork is of the utmost importance (yes, teamwork matters in regular road racing, too, but not nearly to the extent of a TTT).

+1

My reaction too

Garmin hired guys just for the TTT
There's a Worlds TTT?!!

I thought that was just some kind of fictional scenario that Ted or some other spreadsheet genius was going to interpolate using the regular TT.

So a rider would go to the Worlds, wear his trade team gear for the TTT and ride with his trade team, then 2 days later maybe ride the ITT in his country jersey, then ride against his trade team mates whilst wearing his country jersey?

yes, pretty much
D'oh... I totally missed this.

Can I unsubmit and have Tuft back?

I’m even Canadian and I fired that guy. I even LIVED in the same city as he is from and I fired him…

I should have been paying more attention to new rules…

my loss.

You should be docked 1000 points for dropping Tuft.

We Ecotopians need to stick together.

Only six-man squads, and it's still time for the fifth rider?

Wow. That’s gonna make it difficult. Which, I’m sure, is the point ;\

very interesting....

now I have to look at my team and see who are good TT besides the obvious … I like the idea…! More races more fun..!

Richie Porte is giving me headaches and the main reason I haven't submitted my team

If only he wasn’t at sky!

one thing is for sure, when these secondary Sky riders gets chances of their own they

need to deliver pretty big each time.

EBH is another non TT specialist who can get a few points here and there.

Nats
Olympic TT
Olympic Trade TTT
TT’s in smaller 1 week races.

A Rasmussen (if he can be found) could produce a couple of points as well.

Worlds TTT you mean

Slight tehee at the concept of trade teams in the Olympics.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.
And what about Garmin?

Millar
Zabriskie
Vandevelde
Navardauskas
Rasmussen
Rosseler

Some big engines there. And even if those aren’t the six, they’ll still have some big engines.

Vaughters signed the latter two just for this event...he is really wanting this World Championship
Don't forget Dekker

And Vansummeren

Well if Rasmussen and Rosseler were indeed specifically hired for the Worlds TTT

I’d say that leaves one, maximum two spots open. Millar’s going. Zabriskie’s going. Vandevelde I could possibly see getting left off, but even money, I’d say he’s going, too.

Specifically hired

can also mean: increase the pool, raise the general level, boost the competition.

Vaughters has claimed that the best TTT is made up of ITT specialists and sprinters together

So I could see one room for his more sprinty riders too (although Navardauskas does fit in that category for me – not sprinting per se, but leading out sprints)

Does anybody know the schedule of events at the Worlds?

TTT compared to others?

Yup, the schedule is known

9/16 – Women Team Time Trial (34.2 km), Men Team Time Trial (53.2 km)
9/17 – Junior Men Time Trial (26.6 km), U23 Men Time Trial (36 km)
9/18 – Junior Women Time Trial (15.6 km), Elite Women Time Trial (24.3 km)
9/19 – Elite Men Time Trial (45.7 km)

9/21 – Junior Women Road Race (65 km)
9/22 – U23 Men Road Race (161 km), Elite Women Road Race (129 km)
9/23 – Junior Men Road Race (129 km), Elite Men Road Race (267 km)

Curious that the elite men road race isn’t on its own.

There's also going to be a sportive

Presumably on 9/20

So really there should not be a problem doing all three TT(T) events?
Btw, these are damn great TT courses

Cancellara will still expel a lot energy as usual pulling his teammates along windy flats throughout grand tours. He has to be one of the greatest domestiques that is also a Superstar

First guy on my VDS team as usual

From what I hear, Cancellara is not going to TdF.
oh

that is sad (as a TdF fan).

How about the other GTs?

The word is no GT for Fabian this year...

If I remember correctly he is going to race the classics and after that focus in the Olympic Games and Worlds. (this is pure cyber “words” nothing official)

Surely riding 10 days of the Giro would be handy training?
yeah, and missing this years TdF will likely mean -200 points.
maybe he will repeat

winning the Tour de Suisse????

(I jest)

So what would RNT's TTT be?

Cancellara
Kloden
Horner
Monfort
Fuglsang
Machado

Anyone bump those guys off the team?

popovych?
or is he riding the senior's tour?
He's much younger than Horner or Kloden. How about Jens!?
Sergent?
Absolutely

Over Horner and Machado at least

haha, you have to be quick

I was just about to post about Sergent

Right!

Forgot about him

Oliviera

I could see Bennati too. He has a good combination of a big engine and speed. See Vaughters comment above.

I love the TTTs, but I just can't bring myself to put the riders on my team.

I think this is the first lead-up post that hasn’t made me re-think my team.

ha, maybe fun to bookmark this comment until the end of the season? :)

It's going to haunt me.

But I have to sympathize just a little with my riders.

I've got a bunch of guys who are capable of doing well against the clock:

Contador
Martin
Menchov
Thomas
Sergent
De Gendt
Dekker
Devolder
Engoulvent

Devo

Ha :)

On my VDS!

This is his comeback year. I can feel it! He’ll finish 3rd again in TdSuisse, win de Ronde twice, become Belgian TT champ and fail miserably at the Vuelta.

Rabo TTT?

Lulu, Clement, Flens, van Emden, Boom, Tankink

Surely Tjalingii, no?

over Tankink or Flens…I’d put Van Winden in there as well

Not the strongest of teams
It's not, but Rabo have an uncanny knack of finishing with decent times in TTTs.
Mollema is actually a pretty good TT

On the shorter courses he is often top 10. That’s a pretty good match for a TTT

My question about the world's TTT is qualification

Who will ride it? Will anyone be obligated to ride it? I can’t imagine …. that orange team …. will even want to bother, but what teams below the top 18 might be in it? Any?

Omega Pharma's team

T-Mart
leipheimer
Chavanel
P Velits
Rabon
Grabsch

a podium minimum.
Yeah-very solid
Kwiatkowski can TT well
Vaconsoleil

Westra
Leukemans
Larsson
Devo
De gendt
???

BMC

Gilbert
Evans
Phinney
Van Garderen
Pinotti
several other guys could fill the last spot

Phil may be Belgian TT champion

But isn’t that a little like being the smartest kid on the short bus? Surely Bookwalter or even Hincapie are a better bet.

Can't imagine Phil burning matches in a TTT either

RR most important race for him in years

true

subtract him and go with the guys in form in late summer

how many days gap between the two races?
1 week

TTT is on 9/16, elite men road race is on 9/23

plenty of time

when wc stripes on order?

But would he really even be more useful than Bookwalter or Hincapie?

To the point where even a slight risk to his form prior to the RR would be worth it? For him?

Cummings will be there...maybe Quinziato, he is always good in a TTT
Movistar

Valverde
Bruseghin
Karpets
Samoilau
Castroviejo
Konovalovas

A possible darkhorse.

And if Valverde sits, maybe Kiryienka?
pretty strong
yeah

not the winning team but could get in the top 5 VDS points.

I am reading your opinions... And so far I got this conclusion

I am Fucked..!

check your Strava, you'll be delighted!
Why? What did you do?
You know I am IN...!!!!
How about Project 1T4I and Greenedge?

They must have a good lineup too.

And Astana?
Astana

Kreuziger
Voldekourov
Brajkovič

….

Not seein’ much beyond this point. Kashechkin? Kangert? Fofonov? Which makes me question whether Kreuziger would even be up for it.

Frankly, for 10 WT teams this exercise makes no sense.

Unless a team has a small chance of podium, the effort is worthless.

Right

That’s why we are awarding points only to the top 5

Indeed - why would the French or Euskaltel even bother going?!

Just more expense, for them to finish last in a competition where they’ll be out on the road an hour before TV coverage starts…

GreenEdge...Maybe

Vaitkus
Mouris
Tuft
Bobridge
Meyer

Durbridge
Hepburn
Mouris

Mouris is there already, but shame on me for forgetting Durbridge.
Oops, missed him
Depending on whether they are road fit after the Olympics

Tuft
bobridge
C. Meyer
Hepburn
Durbridge
and maybe Vaitkus, Howard or Lancaster

in fact looking there, I'd say that Meyer is unlikely to make the cut. I also have some reservations about

Hepburn’s maturity.

Maybe he'll have the Vuelta in his legs by then.
Both of them are set for the track Olympics, I believe
Maturity? Physically or Mentally?

Yeah, he pulled that dumbass move at l’Avenir last year but that should not rule him out. He is young and will slip up like that. He would kill on this course

A little of both, but we'll see. L'Avenir was dumb, but I don't hold that against him.

He has a huge year ahead of him.

The only TT'er I'd classify as above average on 1t4i is Gretsch

Unless I’m missin’ somebody..?

Kittel. Have a look at his past results.
Have a look at the course
(not saying you haven't, just that it doesn't exactly look like a Kitty Kitty Kittel sort of course to me)
Kittel was a decent climber as a U23

and he was a TT stud as a U23…but his TTing days are probably done because of all the time he spent in the gym and his sprint focused training with Skil/1t4i

Or his reputed watts from sprints

Degenkolb
Kittel
Kluge
but you’re right, I thought their TT lineup was more impressive

Geniez

Stamsnijder can prologue and do short ITTs. Kluge too.
Dumoulin is a bit young for his results to be meaningful, but he had good U23 TT results

Podium Café

Broerie
Gavia
RmC
SMiner
The Boss (Chris)
Albertina

Damn, I didn't make the cut

But +1 for the chuckle :)

I expect I accidentally ignored

lots of good riders

Jens didn't make the cut. Does this mean he's the DS?
I will be in the feeding zone guys..!!

But if your mussetes are sort of empty don’t blame me….

You have to motivate the team from the car

VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA VENGA

Definitely! Remember the mechanic hanging out the window screaming encouragement to Chris Anker S?

That’s Pablo.

I'm looking for a Monolo Saíz video, but my internet keeps crashing

can’t find the Madiot video either.

Jens?

Can’t imagine Jens burning matches in a TTT
RR most important race for him in years

I'm only good at mountain TT's, I suck at TT's on flat roads.
don't be selfish
Dude you are good...
ted can have my spot, being Dutch, I bet he's better at TT's
Jered counts as one of us right?
In that case it's pretty obvious
Jetse!

And Teutenberg.

I'm focusing on U23 Worlds...

next year…watch out

I am targeting the senior Tour

Willj check Strava when you get a chance... I know you will finish top 10 if weather lets you.
Skinny climber's course, then, is it? :)
Can I be the crazy DS shouting?
Sky

Porte
Wiggins
EBH
Rogers

This is another podium spot.

Thomas & Mick Rodgers
Rogers is there already. how about Matty Hayman?
Hmm, yeah, Dowsett is a good pursuiter isn't he?
Dowsett is an outstanding TTer
Pate

(And who knows, maybe Löfkvist will find his TT legs this year.)

I keep wanting to post Katusha

But I can only come up with four guys:

Menchov
Ignatiev
Gusev
Kritskiy

I think those four are pretty solid, but compared to the riches of Garmin, Sky, BMC, Movistar, OmegaStep….doubtful they bring home any points.

Karpets...easy.
Transferred to Movistar this year
I forgot...as usual.
Easy mistake to make

How many World Tour Russians aren’t on Katusha? Not too many.

Ah, found one other

Token hire Boris Shpilevsky for Ag2r.

Novikov at Vacan - they have a Russian every year, had Belkov in 11.
no chance imo
Might as well put in J-Rod for the lulz
OPQS

Boonen
Brammeier
Chavanel
Ciolek
Grabsch
Kwiatkowski
Leipheimer
Maes
Martin
Rabon
Terpstra
Van Keirsbulck
M. Velits

Pretty strong actually. Top 5 should be possible.

P. Velits is the way stronger rider of the two, isn't he?

He’s the one who won the ITT at the Vuelta two years ago.

Oh finally I see 2 of my guys..!
Can Steegmans TT?
He has a decent enging

But OPQS has better

I'd be dissapointed if they don't go podium

Leipheimer, Martin, Grabsch, Kwiatkowski, Chavanel and Rabon/Terpstra…possible winning team

I don't think the team management sees this as a goal

I doubt all these guys will be in shape at that time

I can see Leipheimer skipping...but I see a lot of them being in shape for Worlds/post-Vuelta
And no Martin? Are you mad? ;)
Second name on the list?
OMG. I need to step away.
Top 5 should be a minimum

if they’re allowed to race 13 guys.. :)

Of course the question is

will major contenders for the ITT (Martin, Cancellara, Millar, Wiggins, etc.) want to bother riding the TTT?

Tony Martin case...?

Yes..! Imagine win both the TTT and the ITT..!

He could make history here..!
No doubt turning the double would be funzies

But the individual time trial has got to be the priority, of the two.

Remember the Vuelta last year. HTC took third place with a solid ride nine seconds off Leopard Trek’s pace. T-Mart rolled in for his own time a minute and 16 seconds after Grabsch, Velits, Albasini, Degenkolb, Sivtsov, and Howard finished together. He then won the ITT a week and a half later. Pretty clear which race was on his mind.

I look at this like a new toy... Every kid wants it..!

So don’t be surprise if the big kids come out to play… (just my opinion)

Cccccccchronomen eh?

That’s a lot of C’s, wich makes me think that the Euskaltel PR guy may be upset again as no Basques have been named here. They have Castroviejo after all.

Woah there is a TTT in the Worlds? I never heard about his(OK I likely forgot about it)

this is great, nations would be better IMO but then you have to realize there would be too few nations who could get 5 good TTist together.

And even fewer who have any kind of experience riding a TTT together

There used to be a worlds TTT, among nations. It sucked. And that’s why.

When did you see it?
I wasn't a cycling fan when I was 8 (it was last held in 1994)

I’m parroting critical analysis I’ve read. Does that matter?

It didn't suck...it was just 100km long, which is a bit boring, and Soviet nations used to dominate it, especially in the Olympics

a ton of talent came out of those teams that did those races though

Obviously from someone who has never had the pleasure
It didn’t suck…it was just 100km long, which is a bit boring

Hardest thing I have ever done on two wheels, by a long, long way. 100km leaves plenty of time for lots of hurt to be shared around by everyone…

I hasten to add

This was no where near at a national level, let alone on the international stage, but that did not lessen the hurt…..

I have never done one that long and my legs are burning just thinking about it

my comment was just from a fan’s perspective and from seeing TTT videos

HTTTTFU
What's the quantity of TFU in a TTT?
Alos, there was never an official pro TTT world championship...they were amatuer events

and GP Liberation was the unofficial TTT world champs

I think it was Bernie Eisel I recall saying something along the lines of

“if there was a 3-month Grand Tour, Bert Grabsch would win it”.

You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Podium Cafe to post a comment.